Curse

Krill · Aug 15, 2008, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Not saying d-chop is overpowered, just that it's used the same way lunge is by axe thumpers...when it's charged up and that's not long with RaO going. I'd never heard so much as a peep about disrupting lunge being a problem skill until axe thumpers began appearing in TA.

Abedeus · Aug 15, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

If DChop was a 5e 10r skill I'd say it was overpowered too.

It would. Could be used as a D-Shot for Warriors - you don't need points in Axe Mastery to make it -20 seconds. And you don't need adrenaline.

DutchSmurf · Aug 15, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

RaO is just one of those skills that is a stronger version of a fine skill that Izzy felt was a good idea to add to the game. It should have been nerfed long ago and now we have the skillsplit, there is no reason not to nerf it. Just kill it and make sure it never sees the light again. With RaO gone, none of the other skills are a problem anymore. However, we are talking about Izzy, so he will hit every skill on that bar except RaO. At which point we just run swords (or hammers, or spears, or daggers...) and still have the same problem.

Snow Bunny · Aug 15, 2008, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

What type of build are we talking about here? Is it still Bspike, or Deathspike, or some weird hex, or what?

If you threw minions, assassin deadly arts skills, restoration power heals, a bunch of hexes, and some death magic damage skills, and I guess a monk runner, you have the build.

deluxe · Aug 15, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Nothing wrong with d-lunge, if that would get a nerf, the rao axers would run fgj and spam more dchop.
Imo someone should play that build with an orders derv. ^^ Pumps out some nice partyheals aswell!

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 15, 2008, 06:05 PM // 18:05

RaO was just a dumb skill period, it's one of the skills I never understood why they added them.

Thumpers were quite popular for a while before and after factions release, they caused skills like Irressistible Blow and Tiger's Fury to get nerfed and then when Nightfall comes out there's an elite (RaO) that makes Thumpers way better than they were even before they got nerfed.

It's the same thing with smiters really, Ether renewal smiters -> Air of Enchantment smiters -> Smiter's Boon smiters, sometimes I wonder when Anet will learn from these things..

some guy · Aug 15, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Destroy Rao And Smiters Boon

FOR GREAT JUSTICE AND BRING BACK OLD GVG NOT HA WITH A FLAGSTAND

It's like a cup of pudding after putting your dick in it. It's still good pudding but no matter how you say it, no 1 will eat it cus you put your dick in it. same with GW, it's like beyond fixing and no 1 will ever buy a assnet game cus they put their dick in the pudding known as GW.

(thx yahtzee!!!!)

Hidden Prayers · Aug 15, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

IMO these changes need to be made:
*give the body guard his firestorm back ;(
*nerf damage on smite hexes and smite conditions
*decrease RaO's duration and increase it's recharge; lower energy cost
*make smiter's boon have +X% healing from divine favor...enchant lasts Y sec.
*soul bind recharge increase to 10s
*give tainted a 3s recharge

Separation of HA and GvG pls

cgruber · Aug 15, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Make RaO either an enchantment or a stance, problem solved.

It's still a viable skill but then can be removed.

Moloch Vein · Aug 16, 2008, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hidden Prayers

IMO these changes need to be made:

*soul bind recharge increase to 10s

You can't do that. It would make Soul Bind worse than its non-elite alternative (Scourge Healing.) You'd have to change functionality of the skill. You could justify 10s recharge if it was both major scourges (healing/enchantment) rolled into one, or if it denied E, or if it had an AoE, or whatever.

Dismiss the Cynic · Aug 16, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

You can't do that. It would make Soul Bind worse than its non-elite alternative (Scourge Healing.) You'd have to change functionality of the skill. You could justify 10s recharge if it was both major scourges (healing/enchantment) rolled into one, or if it denied E, or if it had an AoE, or whatever.

It's on curses, which is obv a way better attribute for a hexer then smiting prayers x).

Moloch Vein · Aug 16, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Yeah it is, but it'd really look pretty terrible if the spell was worse than a non-elite Smiting skill. Also as it stands it is just real inflexible (ends on a Smiting hex, wtf)... I know it might need some changes but honestly if you make it too weak people will just catch onto the possibilities and use Scourge Healing instead... I think the good folks on Anet needs to take a good look on this spell. One thing tho, IF SB is made 10r then so must Scourges.

Tearz1993 · Aug 16, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Yeah it is, but it'd really look pretty terrible if the spell was worse than a non-elite Smiting skill. Also as it stands it is just real inflexible (ends on a Smiting hex, wtf)... I know it might need some changes but honestly if you make it too weak people will just catch onto the possibilities and use Scourge Healing instead... I think the good folks on Anet needs to take a good look on this spell. One thing tho, IF SB is made 10r then so must Scourges.

Soul bind is 1 sec cast time. Scourge is 2.

Even if Soul Bind was 15 recharge, scourge isn't as useful considering it will get interrupted almost every time.

Sun Fired Blank · Aug 16, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

A few notes:

Soul Bind is 8,201,973,405 times more amazing in Curses with one second activation than Scourge Healing in Smiting Prayers with two second activation. They might have identical function but in practice they're completely different in terms of effectiveness, and there's no reason that Soul Bind and Scourge Healing have to mirror each other. People have used Smite Monks and (more often) Smite Mesmers for the Scourge Healing and Scourge Enchantment, but Soul Bind is much stronger because it's harder to disrupt (both in terms of a 1s and 40/40) and you can easily smother it with cover hexes, two things that a Mesmer or Monk can't do.

Disrupting Lunge has always been a pain in the ass because it randomly tags important shit, but it's really hard to time. The problem is that in the RaO axes and smite builds, where you're under insane amounts of pressure, the thumpers have 9,508 adrenal interrupts every minute, and monks are using skills on recharge, it has a much easier time tagging shit on recharge.

The best way to use D-Chop / Agonizing, by the way, is to time it, as you can reflex Guardian / Shield of Absorption / etc., and you can predict WoH / RC fairly consistently. Of course because you have so many interrupts and the adrenals are being charged like every five seconds by RaO, you can afford to also just mash your bar and you'll hit something.

Above reaction time, the reason heroes are stronger is probably that heroes maximize the lethality of RoD spam, which humans can't do. They're constantly aware of whether a target is enchanted or hexed with a skill, so unless they use RoD simultaneously (with a .25 or less), they will never cast RoD on a target already enchanted with it, and you'll take every ounce of damage from it.

If you're going to fight a stand battle, your best option, period, is to omega spike the monks. You do cut like 1,500 damage out of the build by repeatedly smashing thumpers, but you also ensure the smiters pump out every ounce of damage into your faces, and you can't really afford that. As an example, in TA, only the inferior groups burn out to you linebacking the thumpers, and you generally have to gank the WoH repeatedly or you burn out before they do.

A stand battle may simply be out of your reach depending on your build, for example if you have FC water and shit, then you have mostly dead characters at stand because they'll cause you to blow up at an accelerated rate.

Moloch Vein · Aug 16, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

A few notes:

Soul Bind is 8,201,973,405 times more amazing in Curses with one second activation than Scourge Healing in Smiting Prayers with two second activation. They might have identical function but in practice they're completely different in terms of effectiveness, and there's no reason that Soul Bind and Scourge Healing have to mirror each other.

I agree with this. There's no reason they should mirror each other, and I actually believe they should NOT mirror each other. Soul Bind as a perfect duplicate of Scourge Healing is simply uninspired. It could use a functionality change.

Tearz1993 · Aug 16, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

I agree with this. There's no reason they should mirror each other, and I actually believe they should NOT mirror each other. Soul Bind as a perfect duplicate of Scourge Healing is simply uninspired. It could use a functionality change.

His point was that they DO NOT mirror each other, and should not.

Technically SV does almost the same thing, but they aren't mirrors.

newbie_of_doom · Sep 12, 2008, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by la_cabra_de_vida

Not that izzy is smart anyway.

That about says it all.